Is the Bible Fact or Fiction?
Saturday December 4, 2004
In honor of the new Discovery Channel program on Rameses II, the Pharaoh mentioned in the Bible, here's a little bit of the History of Archaeology, on how there are interesting, and answerable, questions about the "truth" of the bible and other ancient texts.
Comments
Kris your bandwagon-esque diatribe is amusing as it is incorrect. You say that a planet-wide deluge (flood) has been disproving? Ummmm… why did you say such an asinine thing?
I assume your not familiar with anthropological anecdotal stories of global floods throughout diaspora. What are all of those ancient tribal groups and cultures in league with one another? What about enigmatic water erosion damage to the Sphinx in the DESERT? What about Dr. Ballard’s Black Sea research?
Moses’ account of the global flood even parallels the Epic of Gilgamesh which arguably was a pre-flood document despite it appearing to be post-flood due to its content. No Moses didn’t plagiarize it as it was not available to Egyptians at the time.
There is so much geological evidence of global flooding it staggers the mind why you would parrot such a specious statement. If you want to be in the in-crowd thats one thing. But if you want to be a REAL scientists you must challenge the status quo even if you become a pariah for doing so.
Spooky, you are just another delusional literalist. ALL of real scientific inquiry has utterly FAILED to provide the slightest evidence for a global flood. There never was such a thing – ever. If you believe that kind of tripe because that was what you were taught as a credulous child in church, you have been misinformed. They lied.
Oh , this gets very old after a while.
There are too many presuppositions in the
evolutionary circular thought process.
Other religious groups may read their texts
to see what they say, but we check the
veracity of the holy scriptures. We want
to make sure that our faith is right.
And by the way Lee, when was the last time
you read the bible?
Instead, you stand up and close your eyes to proclaim
your ignorance and try to pass it off as wisdom.
Just be sure that we are 100% wrong before you tell us that.
Before the name calling gets ugly, there has been evidence found of a great flood… In what we call the Old World. The known world at the time of those writings.
There has not been geological confirmation of a flood of massive proportions found anywhere that I’ve read about in the New World e.g. The Americas.
True, our Rockies are not so high, and most of the Andes are unexplored, while the North lies frozen and unreadable.
Blanket statements serve no purpose. Just let it remain a mystery.
After all, if you are a believer, you don’t need proof, and if you are not, no proof can persuade you.
Yes, I have read my bible and can see it for what is is – a prettily worded fiction. And to Oh, Really, yes, you are 100% wrong.
Spooky – pray tell where did all the global water go,and by what physical process?
Good question Bob.. anyone care to answer?
Great flood you say….lets see now noah and his family built a huge ship what 3 times larger then the largest aircraft carrier. What would that take a couple weeks? (LOL) then he travelled the world (the world was flat then remember) and gathered up and herded thousands of species of ALL animals, insects, etc. brought them all together and with food for all put them on his boat. Paddeled out, a big flood came and all were saved. What kind of trick would a god be performing to ask something like this to be done. This was one of the many nonsense stories catholics drilled into children growing up. There parents believed it……why? because their parents told them the same silly story and so on. Just like the santa clause story that children believe. By the time most educated children reach the age of 10, santa clause now becomes a hoax. Just like the bible. But with religious people out of fear/guilt they continue to believe. Thats sad! The bible is just a family tradition handed down, never to question. Once you learn all about jesus there is nothing else to learn. Thats sad, when you stop learning. I was raised a catholic and like MOST catholics today have put those silly catholic stories and falacies to bed. Come on educated people give your heads a shake.
God decided to send a worldwide flood. Why? to wipe out humanity and all living creatures. Thats a loving god now isn’t it? But! Noah was smarter then god. He built a boat loaded everyone on board including every animal from the four corners of the world. The big flood came, everyone was saved and lived happily ever after. Now let me tell you the story about the 3 little pigs.
Im surprised one of you very well informed god pests, haven’t said what you always say when a bible story is disproven, that its meant to be symbolic.Load of crap! You all seem to pick and choose whats real and whats not. Funny that because you always say that the Bible is an historical text! You can’t pick and choose. But you all continue to do so. Why? Anyway, the bible is a good story, just like Jurassic park is, but also its a work of intelligent fiction, blending scientific, and historical fact with total hokum!!!
How the HELL do people believe in this stuff, i don’t understand it. Religious people always tell to stop being close minded and open my eyes to the obvious truth. I think they should heed their own advice for a change.
The bible was written at the first council of Nicaea in 325, almost 200 year after JC died. Like any good book it was loosely based on fact, anything that made his mortal was chucked. Luckily everybody then had such good memories.
I can’t believe that in the 21st century people continue to believe in silliness like talking snake, talking donkey, people resurrected from the dead, and so on. A loving mighty god who created Satan, let’s Satan seduces Adam while doing nothing to stop him, and then decided to punish mankind for the mistake of one person. Why the hell should I be punish for Adam. God then decided that he must save mankind again, so to rectify, he send his son (who happens to be himself too) to die on the cross. Couldn’t find a better way. In order to be saved, humanity must obey everything in an inconsistent book with many mistakes and contradictions while engaging on collective incestuous sexual relation (since we all come from Adam and Eve).
Atheist needs to read Lee Strobel’s book “I don’t have enough Faith to be an Atheist”. Lee was a former Atheist. But ofcourse he has to have an open mind, as so other non-believers, in order to try and undestand what is being said. I can list miracle after miracle that my God has put before me, evidence before my eyes, that can only be explained through devine intervention. I will pray for all of you. Prayer is the only hope any of you have. I had a friend ask me once what will happen if I live as a Christian all my life, and when I die, I find out “that’s it” and I was wrong. My answer: I’d rather live as a believer and find out I was wrong, than live as an Atheist and find out the Christians were right. What will I have lost if I am wrong? Nothing. What will I have lost if Christians are right? Everything. Read the book “90 Minutes in Heaven”
Today no honest, educated person can maintain that the universe came into being a few thousand years ago as many christians believe, and assumed its current form in 6 day, and the absurdity that day and night existing before the sun was created (genesis) . Adam lived to be over 900 years old (LOL) , his two sons procreating with whom to start the generations?
Yes there might have been great floods in the past but 700 year old Noah (LOL) circling the globe to every corner gathering and transporting millions of species of animals (bringing their each particular food) with them. Then after the flood returning all these animals to each exact location where they were found. Come on people. Religion is a faith based on old ancient copies of copies of copies of scripts written by a bunch of old farty men that we know nothing personally about them but believe everything they say.
If a 13 year old girl today named Mary walked down any street in america and said she was impregnated by a ghost, we would call the guys with the white coats. If there was a man christians call Jesus (there was no letter J in Hebrew times back in the day) was probably nothing more then a comparable David Copperfield today. David Copperfield can saw people in half. AKA Jesus could bring people back to life. WOW!
NANCY: We don’t need to read anyones book. You need to use your own God given abilities and use your knowledge to subtract fact from fiction. Its obvious you adopted your faith from your parents who probably adopted it from their parents and so on, not based on any facts but back in the time based on fear that churches instilled in people that if you believe in Jesus (not his real name, no letter J in the Hebrew alphabet at that time) Heaven awaits you, if you don’t Hell awaits you. The old fear routine.
I came to believe in Christ my self, from events that had happened in my life. All of you should read the bible and I will be praying so that hopefully you will understand it. No matter what you say God still loves you all.
I know it’s not politically correct to say,but I find it impossible not to feel superior when I read the thoughts of reasonably sophisticated people who regurgitate the same stock phrases time after time as a defense of or evidence of their faith in an omniscient god/creator and all the attendant mumbo-jumbo that supposedly gives those beliefs some credence.
As an atheist,I am aware that my side of the argument-that there is no god,is not a provable statement-one cannot prove a negative.So, I give all the believers out there the easy and provable task.Show one iota of proof.Produce your god.I won’t accept some gobbeldey-gook stock phrases or some self deluding testimonial.Produce him/she/it/they or any tangible proof of any supernatural anything and I will stop feeling superior.Until then I will see all believers as at best deluded by fear or as is more likely, simply delusional.
shay — letter 10 — sorry, the bible, that is the new testament — was not ‘written at the council of nicaeea it was ‘edited’ there
some books OK, some books not eg the ‘Gospel of Thomas’and several doz. more…judged as ‘heretical’…. too bad for us…some are quite interesting …try various univ. libraries………
come on people… anyone with an IQ over 80 can differentiate fact from BULLSHIT which is what the bible is.. it was written by savages!! not god… it is stupid stories that people believed in when we didnt know any better.. but is is 2009!!! we know the earth isnt flat.. we know adam and eve didnt exist and we for sure know noah didnt put all 10 billion species on a boat.. i mean this is ridiculous and any one who thinks this acually happened should go to the doctor and ask for a pill for anti-retardedness.. all religion does is create hatred and war and makes people predjudice/ethnocentric.. 911 etc etc.. people who say jesus this jesus that are only saying it cuz they were BRAINWASHED by their parents .. do any parents let their children choose their religion and beliefs .. ?? NO!!!!!!! before they were born their beliefs were already chosen for them… and if their parents were to have changed their beliefs before they were born and were now for example muslim this same person would now be saying praise allah instead of jesus!!!! RELIGION=BRAINWASHING ..plain and simple..
Vince wrote: “I came to believe in Christ my self, from events that had happened in my life. All of you should read the bible and I will be praying so that hopefully you will understand it. No matter what you say God still loves you all.”
Well, where is the proof that God, if he exists, loves you or for that matter, even cares about you or even notices you exist? I’m fairly certain that if he does in fact exist, he would not waste time noticing insignificant specks such as ourselves. Furthermore, you Bible-thumpers practically scream in our faces that He exists, He did this, He did that and he has a special list of 10 things you Shall Not Do or straight to Club Hell you go, dont forget the suntan lotion. Show me ONE SOLID IRREFUTABLE SHRED OF PROOF that he exists, loves us very much, keeps a close eye on things. Oh wait….there isnt. In fact, your God is a very angry, hostile, intractable God, isnt he? And every single time I confront one of you people with LOGIC, something you all don’t deal with too well…I get the same tired beat-to-death Cop-Out of All Time: The Lord Works In Mysterious Ways. That makes me want to break your Seventh Commandment right there. The arrogance of your Church that has the temerity to tell me Im damned and going to Hell (Hi Lucy Im home!!) simply because I don’t believe in Him. Put it this way: If He is as wonderful as you say he is, and He in his infinite love and wisdom cares for us all…..do you think he would give a rat’s ass whether we believed in Him or not? Oh yeah one more thing before I go: Regarding Thou Shalt Not Kill (Murder)….don’t you think He is more guilty of that than anyone in History combined?
Religion gives us a code of life.One thing that we Muslim are sure of, that Judaism, Christianity and Islam are heavenly religions granted for people living in different periods.If you observe things around, you will see that God has taught us everything which we need to take care of. Adam n Eva was sent to earth because they could not control their desires. They left lesson for us that we have to control our desires( sex without marrige,greed for money) etc.God made it more easier for us by sending his messages through Torah, Bible, n Quran…In our daily life we see that when a book is published it serves for a certain time span. When time goes on the needs of the readers change thus a new book is published which satisfies new needs.Quran was sent in the end n it claims for its originality in its unique verses that it can never be edited or changed. Thus God has finalised Quran as a code of life for the people after Bible… May God guide us to the right path..Ameen
Has anyone gave any thought to where we would be if they never found that first bible? Remenber it was dug out of the trash. The answer is we would be right here chatting about somthing different. The bible is FICTION. Think About this, what if the entire world got wiped out, all except 2 young children and they later in life hooked up and had kids and then they found some paper work writen by Gorge Lucas? Would they PRAY TO YODA? Would Darth Vader be the feared devel….? Its the same thing, it is a nice cute collection of stories, just like the bible. THE BIBLE IS FICTION.
come on now… obviously the bible is fiction… everybody knows that Homers epic Illiad and Oddyssey are the only true stories ever written..
praise Achilles, son of water goddess Thetis
F**k Jesus he’s not real
I still worship Zeus!!! god of all gods, so personified that he even gets bitched at by his wife like a regular Joe
Ali (22) has said it.
Statements that only the purely brainwashed can make. A book that was written – as Ali said – for its time – to suit the murderous politicians of the time. To create – for want of a better phrase – a “masterrace” of the followers of a desert moon cult and that all nonfollowers are lesser beings at best. That is used as an excuse to murder, mutilate, subjugate, steal, lie – in fact every form of evil behaviour that those of us who were subjected to the “love of God” were taught were unacceptable.
The most fundamental truths in existence, Ali – are that humanity is the most creative (as well as destructive) force on this planet, that it must live in harmony with this planet and with each other if all are to survive, and that a set of humanitarian rules and responsibilties must be universally accepted (i.e. to respect each other and each others families, lives and material goods. To respect any and all peaceful cultural traditions that so beautify the human race.) In so doing, all dogma – religious or political as outlined in such works as the Bible, Quran, Torah, Mein Kampf, Das Kapital or Chairman Maos Little Red Book, among others, must be left in the libraries for students to learn how mad little men tried to maintain power over the peoples of this little planet. God is not a mad scientist in a grey beard who made such a mess of creation. God is the planet, and all of nature – live with it and love it.
I must say, everyone on this forum is certainly entitled to his of her own opinion. If you will allow me.
Not too long ago I was a Harvard-Law-Degree-Holding member of society with the Absolute-Arrogance-Of-Mankind.
Get out of my way, God does not exist, I hate my Dad for being nothing more than a well educated liar, My mother for leaving, (I have forgiven her) I want the biggest house money can buy, I will lie to win, I will shake your hand and stab you in the back as you turn to leave, then I will bill you.
17 years later I found myself to be my Dad. A once successful attorney fired for being a 16 year alcoholic. I asked God to help me and guess what?
He did.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. But I say, God is real.
More than 3/4 of these people, with their street chump tough comments, foul lauquage, and oh-so-shrewd wits about them… why they’re so sure of themselves, aren’t they?!?!
They too, as they age, will come to see, God is real. He is here, and in your heart, waiting patiently.
The rest of you? I will pray for your souls.
Now get off the internet and go do something productive!
Smiling from Cabo and I’m not doing anything productive… Frank
I see everyone’s point. I served in Iraq for 38 months and avoided death but still received a gunshot wound. I was brought up agnostic and I carried this throughout my life, even during Desert Storm, along with our current situation. After returning home for the last time in 2005, I became a “self-medicator” with my pain medication. Last year, I tried to commit suicide, but something kept me alive. I was involved in a car accident after injecting myself with Propofol (the drug that supposedly killed Michael Jackson) then I overdosed on Fentanyl. Someone doesn’t want me to leave this earth. I have found my higher power and am a spiritual person today. I believe there is a God, even though I can find scientific proof for everything that has occurred since the dawn of time. I still will not boast my standing on spirituality nor will I engage in a theological argument, I just tell my story and leave it at that for others to discuss. Thanks for reading
Are all of you complete morons? I mean seriously people, come on. You’re being ridiculous. Of course the bible is fiction. Do you actually READ what it says? Lol. Wow. Santa is seriously more believable. Christians and other religious nuts are so blind….blind to reality. Any intelligent person should know that there is no God. There never was. There never will be. Get over it and get on with your lives. Without religion, many lives will be saved. I think it’s funny how the so-called “saved” are killed in wars based upon religious quarrels. Only the weak could believe in such a thing. But brighten up—At least you know you won’t spend eternity burning in hell now!
The Native Americans lived in accordance with what Jesus promoted more than the people who invaded their land. Then, the Jews and Christians slaughtered them. Lovely. Remember, the Bible denounces money and usury.
you guys are hilarious lol
to all the atheists or people that dont believe in heaven and hell, i pose this question: WHY DO YOU GIVE A F*CK WHAT THE HELL ANYONE ELSE BELIEVES IN?? if you dont believe the bible- hey whatever, you’re grown up and you’re gonna do whatever you want regardless. christians dont force you to believe. they preach salvation. take it or leave it. and if christians tell you that you’re going to hell for not believing, why does it bother YOU if you dont believe in hell anyway? does it make you feel better to call those who believe in a god “stupid” or “morons”? guess what. nobody cares how idiotic an atheist thinks a christian is because in a christian’s eyes, you’re the one going to hell for eternity, and IMHO going to heaven is worth being called a moron. FYI.
and to make things worse, a lot of you on here are telling the bible stories without having read them, or shall i say .. STUDIED them, which is common, because someone who doesnt WANT to believe isnt expected to study a text in the subjects favor right? i mean, i choose not to worship “flying spaghetti monster” therefore im not going to google it.
to bob and sarah, yes that was a good question, due to the amount of water there was (regarding the story of noah). to answer your question, from the biblical text, the water was on earth for 150 days according to genesis 8, then it began to decrease. after 7 months or so, it had receeded enough for the arc to be able to halt on top of a mountain (werent the remains found and documented some years ago that proved this? not sure, but i digress) after another 3 months noah started sending a dove or a raven or some bird out to “see” if there was dry land. he does this for a couple weeks or so. basically if he was brought back a leaf or something, it was almost safe to leave. when the dove never came back from the last time he sent it out, the bird had found a resting place, meaning it could look for food (in the ground) and live and flourish without having to come back to noah. that served as his proof that the ground was decently dry. that is to answer your question about where the water went. it simply dried up and evaporated just like it does today. this process took almost a year. the text says noah was 600 (plus 17 days and 2 months) years old when he entered the arc. when this whole ordeal came to an end, he was 601 years old (and 1 month and 1 day).
someone mentioned the whole thing with adam and eve’s sons marrying. look, the bible never says God stopped creating people. it doesnt have too. adam and eve would have to have sex constantly to produce a planet full of people. and thats assuming they had a boy, then a girl, etc, became old enough to reproduce, and then repeat. im sure it was much easier to create the first beings and THEN have them multiply.
meanwhile, The purpose of the bible was to tell the story of Jesus beginning with his lineage which starts with adam. it mentions the MEN (the bloodline/seed) who matter the most for the story. therefore its not gonna say god created Tina and Shelly and Tiffany and Keisha and Billy and Robert etc… None of that matters and it shouldnt.
and to you people who want “proof” lol
really? prove god exists? christians are human, guys, we cant literally prove without a shadow of a doubt that god exists. but we also cant prove he DOESNT exist. can you prove pain exists or that a person is faking it?
we only have faith. but the matter is this: why should christians have to prove ANYTHING to YOU to save YOUR soul? its your soul, save it yourself if you dont wanna listen to what we tell you. i know that sounds harsh, and i know one of you smartasses is gonna throw that “WWJD” in my face but if ALMIGHTY GOD has the power to do anything, including changing your mind for you, but will NOT, why should I? faith is a very personal thing, its up to you and only you. God gave us the freedom to choose, which is what a lot of you forget.
oh and one of you mentioned that God created Satan. this isnt true. God created beings (angels, man, animals, etc)…and all have the power to think and act as they please, but as we all learn, there are consequences for those actions. Lucifer (aka satan) was an angel. in fact, dude was the most beautiful angel. but he got his head stuck up his own ass and, God, the Master of the Universe basically, kicked him out of heaven. Lucifer, all sore about what happened, wants to reak havok because he is mad about it and if he’s going down, he’s taking as many souls as he can muster with him, just to piss God off even more. the problem is, people are totally falling for it.
if i was god, and i created you and i love you and offer you redemption, and you still dont even acknowledge that i exist? i would be quite pissed off too.
whats interesting is that even SATAN believes theres a God, Jesus, heaven and hell so if you non-believers are wrong, I wonder if you would be tortured in hell worse than they will be…
and IF believers are wrong (although i have no doubt in christianity, but for sake of argument), so f*cking what. there would be no hell. not to say that fear should be the motivation, but thats a damn good consideration.
im no saint im just making a point. comments welcome. have a great day
nancy, i had read reviews about “90 minutes in heaven” i heard it’s nothing new- the pearly gates, fancy music, seeing dead loved ones… and then he goes on and on about his injuries and getting well again
i think in 2009, people need a real shocker story, like hey i died and hung out with jesus for a day or something.
is this really worth a read? in your opinion?
in response to OH REALLY i wanted to say that we are not the ones with our eyes closed you are… You look to nothing but your bible and its obviously not anything to look to with all the contridictions within it whos to say whats true about it…
Thanks ‘Jblayze’ for your comment. It’s the most logical/honest one I’ve read on here.
Anyway, I was an atheist, until a few weeks ago when my new room-mate at university persuaded me to start reading the bible. So I started reading it, and I gotta say, it’s enlightening.
Everything about religion that I thought was so flawed and so obviously ‘fictional’, is explained by the bible. This is not to say that I believe in God just yet, but I’m definitely no longer an atheist.
To anyone who says they are an atheist, I suggest you give the bible a chance, and if you still feel strongly about your belief, then fair enough. Howevever, ever since I started reading the bible, I’ve been a happier person and everything around me has generally been positively changing, most likely because I’m viewing the world around me in an entirely different way.
But yeah, I hope you have a great life, whoever you are, and whatever you may believe
Would the world be any different if their was no documentation of anything written? Just think how without that aspect of thinking or thought for some ,where would humans be now?