Weekly Chat from About Archaeology
Moderated by Pat Garrow and K. Kris Hirst
Transcript: March 11, 2001: Speaker Anita Cohen Williams
Note: This transcript has been slightly edited for readability.
Information about Ms. Cohen-William's work has been stored here.
Printer-Friendly Chat Transcript
| .............. Log started at Sun Mar 11 18:07:37 PST 2001 ........... | |
| Pat Garrow | Our guest tonight is Anita Cohen-Williams, the guru of archaeology on the internet. Welcome to Articulations Anita |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | Thanks |
| Pat Garrow | Where are you from and how did you become interested in internet applications? |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | I am from northern California, and became involved with the Internet as a reference librarian in Arizona in 1994 |
| Pat Garrow | 1994 is essentially the beginning of the net as we know it isn't it? |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | No, BBS or bulletin boards were around beforehand, but the Net was in its beginning stages then. |
| Kris Hirst | Have you ever talked to David Carlson (owner of Arch-L), and were you influenced by him? |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | Yes, I know David quite well, and his encouragement was wonderful at the beginning of HISTARCH |
| Pat Garrow | Tell us how HISTARCH started |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | HISTARCH started out as a way of connecting archaeologists around the world |
| Pat Garrow | How did you initially publicize it? |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | Historical archaeology was in its infancy and I saw a way of reaching out to the academic world with such a list |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | In 1994, the Internet was mostly just e-mail, so I sent notices out to other lists, newsletters, and talked it up at meetings |
| Pat Garrow | ...and you were absolutely right. How many people subscribe at this point? |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | Currently there are about 800 people on the list. |
| Pat Garrow | 800 is really good, considering SHA only has about 2,000. |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | A lot of the people online are not SHA members, I have many students and the public |
| Pat Garrow | Do you monitor the posts before they go on? |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | No, the list is not moderated. HISTARCH people behave themselves, unlike the group on Sub-Arch |
| Pat Garrow | Tell us about Sub-Arch |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | Sub-Arch covers underwater archaeology and is dedicated to the memory of Rey Ruppe. |
| Pat Garrow | Rey was a good friend and colleague |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | I got a chance to know him when I was at Arizona State |
| Kris Hirst | And explain why the SubArch list is so .... obstreperous? |
| Pat Garrow | What types of problems have you encountered? |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | The membership of Sub-Arch includes professional archaeologists, treasure hunters and the interested public. |
| Pat Garrow | That can be a volatile mix |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | Whenever the word treasure is mentioned, a flame war is sure to start. |
| Kris Hirst | and naturally, the sparks fly... how do you feel about that? is SubArch a useful tool to deal with these issues? |
| Pat Garrow | Have the flames accomplished anything, or just created more animosity? |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | I've even had to deal with someone writing libelous things. |
| Pat Garrow | ouch, that can't be good |
| IreneH1 | So do you moderate Sub-Arch? |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | I tend to give the posters a warning, and if they continue, I throw them off the list. |
| Kris Hirst | what is your liability, by the way? do you know? |
| Pat Garrow | That certainly works. have you had many evictions? |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | No, Sub-Arch is not moderated. Yes, I have had to kick a couple of people off. Sometimes the flames do become useful posts. |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | As for liability, I am not worried. |
| Pat Garrow | Well, at least they are talking...... |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | Exactly. I tend to feel that salvors and archaeologists need to work together, hence the usefulness of the list. |
| nepstadt | In what way are the flames useful? |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | For example, a treasure hunter was being flamed and he pointed out that he would work with archaeologists if anyone would do so. Someone did answer him, and the hunter is being trained in arch. techniques. |
| Pat Garrow | I have seen archaeologists and salvors try to work together several times, and it has always failed. What common ground d you think the two have? |
| IreneH1 | By 'moderate' I meant pre-screening, as N.S.Gill and I have been forced to do on our forum |
| Kris Hirst | N.S. (Nemy) Gill runs the Ancient History site on About.com; Irene is a moderator on Nemy's forum. |
| IreneH1 | So far on our board, no poster has complained that they have to wait for their post to go on. |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | I understand what you mean by moderation. Using the LISTSERV program, I can review one person's posts before they reach the entire group. |
| IreneH1 | Anita, do these lists require a financial outlay/sponsor? |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | No there is no financial outlay, other than my own time. |
| IreneH1 | Good, because I have seen sponsors disappear... |
| Pat Garrow | How much time does it take to maintain the lists on a weekly basis Anita? |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | About 3 hours a week. But that is only since I figured out how to make the list maintain itself |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | Before that, it took over 2 hours a day. |
| Pat Garrow | that's a lot less than I would have thought. must have taken a lot of time to set each one up though |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | Not with the LISTSERV program. I had to set up a sponsor at ASU, where the server is. |
| IreneH1 | If there is no sponsor, does it just require a software program? |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | Yes. L-Soft has a LISTSERV Lite program, or you can use Yahoo Groups, (a.k.a. eGroups), eCircle, ListBot, or Topica |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | All of these are free, although they do have some ads. |
| Kris Hirst | But ASU still supports you, in so far as it keeps room on its server for HISTARCH |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | Yes, all three of my lists are at ASU. Since none are over 800 subscribers, there is not a lot of space used. |
| Pat Garrow | I guess that isn't big as Internet lists get, but it certainly is for archaeology |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | Some of the education lists have over 2000 |
| Kris Hirst | Don't you wish the profession would put a little support behind these kinds of useful tools? I sure do |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | I remember meeting with the SHA Board (we were a committee on electronic materials), and pointing out the urgent need for a website. One of the board laughed and said something to the effect of, We are archaeologists! |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | Two months later, they set up a website. |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | I have since been asked to be on the advisory board of the website, but nothing has happened. WE did manage to have a symposium on web pages on the Queen Mary |
| Pat Garrow | the website was set up by the business manager. it certainly has been effective |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | Effective, but not complete. I had to ask the folks on Histarch where the 2002 meeting was because it WASN'T on the website!! |
| Pat Garrow | I think you will be contacted on that again in the future Anita, since the business office will soon rest with a professional management firm |
| Pat Garrow | We have had a conference challenge on the website Anita. long story I will share with you at Mobile if you like |
| IreneH1 | I *do* have a list on Yahoo (previously eGroups, previously...) |
| Pat Garrow | What is Spanbord? |
| IreneH1 | I struggled last night with viewing the NAVIS website - a lot of thought has to go into usability |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | Of course. Many of the web designers don't understand their users. |
| Kris Hirst | I have to admit my ignorance, Irene; what's NAVIS? |
| IreneH1 | That's a European site that lists and shows ancient restored ships |
| Pat Garrow | what is the URL for NAVIS Irene? |
| IreneH1 | Pat: http://index.waterland.net/navis/home/ |
| Pat Garrow | thank you Irene |
| Kris Hirst | We talked, you and I Anita, at the SHA meetings about working out an online workshop, to help archaeologists with developing good websites, What are your ideas of a good website? |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | A good website must have an extremely user-friendly interface, good background colors that don't blind the user or a background that is not cluttered. |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | The pages must be carefully laid out with plenty of HOME tags on each page so the user does not become completely lost. |
| IreneH1 | You have to use KISS system ;-) |
| Pat Garrow | and load quickly Anita? |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | Yes, using thumbnail graphics for loading quickly (if the user wants to see a bigger photo, they can click on it). |
| Pat Garrow | KISS? |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | Keep is Simple, Stupid - Ray Kroc. |
| Pat Garrow | LOL |
| Pat Garrow | I really have a hard time with web pages that take several minutes to load |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | Well, if you are still using a dialup modem, heavy graphics and animation can be a real pain. |
| IreneH1 | I guess with more on more people going to DSL, it may not matter much any more soon, Pat |
| Pat Garrow | I can't get DSL where I live and it is several years in the future where I am moving to next year |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | Even with DSL, some pages are impossible |
| LauraR | and avoid Java if possible -- it crashes computers far too often |
| Pat Garrow | Java sure does |
| IreneH1 | So I'm very aware when I do websites |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | The problem I have every year when I go to Spring InternetWorld here in Los Angeles is that designers and programmers so love streaming video and Flash and all the other new toys that they forget their users |
| IreneH1 | I've been staying away from Java, Which BTW is one problem of this NAVIS website |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | Which browser are you using? |
| IreneH1 | IE here |
| Kris Hirst | Netscape 4.7 for me |
| Pat Garrow | Netscape for me too |
| LauraR | IE 5.0 -- Mac version |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | Certain browsers work well with Java and Flash and others (like Netscape) don't. |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | Netscape 4.6 is still the best, 6.0 is a royal pain. |
| Pat Garrow | I believe mine is 4.7 |
| Kris Hirst | What do you think the Internet can provide for archaeologists, Anita? |
| Pat Garrow | Anita, do you have any additional archaeological list serves on the books? |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | How about getting rid of grey literature? |
| Pat Garrow | Getting rid of it or making it accessible? |
| IreneH1 | What is "grey" literature? |
| Pat Garrow | contract archaeology reports |
| Kris Hirst | Excellent question, Irene--its all of what I produce in my day job |
| Pat Garrow | me too |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | Instead of printing up CRM reports, or small excavation reports that are not available to every library, why not put it up on the Web as an ebook? |
| Pat Garrow | some can be done that way. there are client restrictions on some things |
| IreneH1 | Can't you deal with the restrictions via passwords? |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | For client restrictions, have a time limit on them |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | You could publish reports without the specific site location |
| Kris Hirst | Or passworded, as Irene suggested |
| Pat Garrow | Not all reports would be of interest, of course |
| Kris Hirst | Grey literature is very very dull, as you might imagine |
| LauraR | At least every archy company should set up a database of their report titles/summaries on the web and offer them for sale |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | I have been kicking the idea around of a web clearinghouse for archaeological site reports, especially the older ones that everyone refers to and no one can find |
| Pat Garrow | My company does about 250 projects a year. About 15% of those would be of general interest in the field |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | Why only 15%? |
| Pat Garrow | Because no-one wants to read endless cell tower reports |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | True |
| Pat Garrow | We provide free copies of our reports upon request, but get few requests |
| LauraR | we <Paleoresearch labs> do about 90 - 100 projects a year -- pollen, phyto, protein, and macro bot analysis |
| LauraR | All lab work, no field work, so most of our reports likely would interest people |
| Pat Garrow | are those then components of larger reports Laura? |
| LauraR | often they are combined into larger reports, but they can stand on their own |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | If an archaeologist needed more specific info, they could contact your firm. |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | In fact, there is a major discussion on Histarch right now about botany and what grows around structures. |
| Kris Hirst | (that wasn't killed by chlordane, that is) |
| Kris Hirst | There is an effort on the Federal govt. to get the grey literature available, but ... it's just so monumental |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | The NPS database is a good example |
| Kris Hirst | (The NPS is the National Park Service; they have a database on their web site that includes a lot of the grey literature) |
| Pat Garrow | would be nice to be able to actually use the NPS database |
| Kris Hirst | true; I did use it, recently, but the information was pretty out of date---see above comment about funding |
| Pat Garrow | I have never really been able to get in and use the NPS database |
| Kris Hirst | Anita, maybe this is the time you should talk about your web data project |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | I have agreed to be a volunteer editor for a site called WebData.com that is focusing on database-driven pages or web pages that have a database in them. |
| Kris Hirst | What kind of subjects will WebData cover? |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | It appears to cover everything. My areas are history, archaeology, and museums. |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | I have also collected a lot of web site URLs myself, and have a database of them all around me. |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | I'd like to set up a clearinghouse and database for historical archaeology. It would include grey lit, web sites, ebooks, articles, etc. |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | You know, going back to funding, I'd love to get help from someone |
| Pat Garrow | Who would fund something like the web database Anita? |
| Pat Garrow | wish the SHA had more financial resources |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | Well,, first they need a better membership drive!! |
| Pat Garrow | true Anita. I hope some of our upcoming meeting venues will help |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | There are a lot of ezines (electronic magazines) out there that only charge $5-10 for a simple ad that goes out to a lot of people. |
| Kris Hirst | If we could get the companies to support the efforts; not just the SHA, but the companies we actually work for, to support the web stuff, through ads, I think that would work well |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | In fact, (ahem), I have an ezine called SearchMe, all about web sites and researching online. |
| Pat Garrow | tell us more about it Anita |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | It is on Topica (so it is free) and it is basically a small newsletter about the best places to do online research, news about search engines, and fun sites. I always try to include archaeological web sites as well. |
| IreneH1 | Can you give us the URL? |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | www.topica.com and type in SearchMe |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | I am also writing an ebook on search engines, not the top ones, but the smaller and more specialized ones |
| PhilipD | Thanks for the URL! |
| IreneH1 | Duly bookmarked, thank you! |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | Perhaps I should (oh dear, not another project!) start an ezine of just archaeological websites? |
| Pat Garrow | yes! |
| PhilipD | I know one real good place to study archaeology already! :-) |
| Pat Garrow | what are the best search engines for archaeology? |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | Best search engines - Google.com, EntireWeb.com. Meta search engines - Dogpile.com, Metacrawler.com, and Mamma.com. |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | When you are doing a search for archaeology, watch the spelling! I got 57,000 hits for "archaeology" and 17,000 for "archeology" |
| PhilipD | Archie-ology...;-) |
| Pat Garrow | seen it that way too Philip |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | A lot of the "archeology" pages were UFO sightings, FORBIDDEN archeology, or why the US government doesn't want you to know about their secret (fill in the blank) |
| PhilipD | Anita, "Chariots of the Gods" stuff.. |
| IreneH1 | Aren't those a pain, Anita? |
| Kris Hirst | Well, you can't really censor the Internet, thank goodness; that's what selective directories are all about, though |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | No, no. I love the weirdo pages. |
| IreneH1 | As a matter of fact, on the Ancient/Classical History Forum we have created a folder called "Alien, Atlantis, Alternative History" ;-) |
| PhilipD | I like the weird stuff too...but realize I need to keep my grain o' salt handy.. |
| Kris Hirst | I waffle as to whether to give those kinds of pages any airing at all; but why not? as Anita says, they're fun. |
| IreneH1 | We had a more creative name first, Kris, but the editor nixed it... |
| Kris Hirst | I bet you did! lol |
| IreneH1 | Anita, this folder is basically to keep the screwballs away from the serious discussions... |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | Ah, Irene, but give them something to munch on! :) |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | I will be updating part of my Archaeology in Fiction bibliography for a new book on Archaeology in Science Fiction. Check on those titles for you folder, Irene. |
| Kris Hirst | Yeah, tell us about your Archaeology in Fiction list, Anita |
| IreneH1 | I looked through the list, Anita, my favorites are Amelia Peabody mysteries |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | Oh, I am also running a group on uTOK.com called Archaeology and Museums. |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | Well, there are a lot of new ones by Elizabeth Peters, and a few new ones by Aaron Elkins. |
| Kris Hirst | Are you including Nevada Barr this time around? |
| Pat Garrow | who is Nevada Barr? |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | Yeah, who? |
| Kris Hirst | Nevada Barr writes mysteries about this BLM ranger, Anna Pigeon, who sometimes brushes up against archaeology now and again |
| Kris Hirst | Does everybody know what we're talking about? |
| PhilipD | I don't |
| larry | nope lol |
| Pat Garrow | archaeology in works of fiction? |
| Kris Hirst | In 1994 Anita put together this list of novels that include archaeology in them, either as a plot device or as a character |
| PhilipD | Fictional archaeology? or Real archaeology in fictional setting? |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | Fictional archaeology. |
| Kris Hirst | Here's the URL for Anita's Archaeology in Fiction: http://www.tamu.edu/anthropology/fiction.html |
| PhilipD | Thanks |
| Pat Garrow | ty admin |
| Kris Hirst | Anita's being coy, but she was just asked to edit part of it for a new book on Archaeology & Science Fiction |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | Check out a book called Murder at Monticello. |
| IreneH1 | Amelia Peabody is a female archeologist around 1900, in Egypt |
| PhilipD | Ahhh... |
| Pat Garrow | Kelso's Monticello Anita? |
| PhilipD | Tut's Curse type stuff? |
| Kris Hirst | You could spend your life wandering around libraries and book stores looking for the references |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | Murder at Monticello covers a dig at Thomas Jefferson's house that finds a white male skeleton in the slave quarters |
| PhilipD | Uh Oh! How'd that get there?....:-) |
| Pat Garrow | who was the author Anita? |
| Kris Hirst | See, there is a purpose to archaeology; making good plot devices for novelists! |
| IreneH1 | Same goes for history, Kris. The Steven Saylor mysteries about Republican Rome are great |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | Rita Mae Brown and Sneaky Pie Brown |
| Pat Garrow | some names! |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | Have you seen the Lindsay Davis series about a detective called Falco in Ancient Rome? |
| IreneH1 | Yes, love those too, Anita. But Saylor is more historically accurate |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | Do you have a title, Irene? |
| IreneH1 | Go to my booklist: http://members.nbci.com/placida/booklist1a.htm (though the server was down earlier today) |
| Pat Garrow | What is next for archaeology on the internet Anita? |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | I think we have reached the limit for web pages (other than a streaming video of an actual dig). |
| PhilipD | Anita, I prefer still photos & text anyway! |
| Pat Garrow | What about web pages dedicated to interpretation of archaeology for the public? I know some are out there, but is there room for more? |
| PhilipD | The rest gets too complicated |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | Sure, there is always room for more web pages (after all we are only at 2 billion now). |
| PhilipD | 2 billion?...and I've only surfed a couple million!..;-) |
| Kris Hirst | Here's my idea---we should have open discussions, two or three way permanent discussions of ideas on the web. Chat and rechat, sort of Current Anthropology-like |
| Pat Garrow | isn't that what we are trying to start here admin? |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | Isn't a discussion list a permanent one? |
| Kris Hirst | Not as formal as I'd like to see it; with a specific topic, and someplace accessible. |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | But, as was pointed out at our session at SHA, the time difference makes it difficult for some of our international people to participate. |
| Pat Garrow | that means we need several of these at different times Anita |
| Kris Hirst | Like, at this web address we're going to talk about.... uh, getting the public into archaeology, and you can go back to it whenever you feel the urge to respond. |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | The Levi Jordan site has such a chat room, but is deserted. |
| PhilipD | What are the top three or four archaeology Hot Topics right now? |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | Kennewick Man, NAGPRA |
| PhilipD | I figured Kennewick would be in there |
| Pat Garrow | How long can you talk about a single archaeological site? |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | Until your jaw fossilizes |
| Pat Garrow | lol |
| IreneH1 | What is NAGPRA? |
| Kris Hirst | the Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act |
| Kris Hirst | it is a US federal govt. act that protects burials and burial goods, in part from archaeologist |
| PhilipD | Egypt is not big any more? |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | Philip. read the book DEATH BY THEORY by Adrian Praetzellis. |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | Egypt is big among the classicists |
| PhilipD | Sort of like "beating a dead horse"? |
| PhilipD | Where can I find out more about the "European" mummies found in China? |
| Pat Garrow | Archaeology Magazine had a piece on that didn't it? |
| PhilipD | I saw something on PBS about it |
| larry | you are right Phillip PBS did do a film on western china mummies |
| Kris Hirst | http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/chinamum/taklamakan.html |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | Kris, do you have a book review section on your site? |
| Kris Hirst | yes, I do have a book review section, I've written around 40 book reviews so far |
| Kris Hirst | I think that's the thing that the Internet might let us do, keep in touch with the widespread archaeologists; although there is still minimal interaction between the Americanists, say, and Egyptologists |
| IreneH1 | What would be the benefits of more interaction? |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | There are electronic applications like eRoom and WebEx that allow people to discuss stuff in real time. The chat area, thepalace.com also has special sites |
| Kris Hirst | Well, Irene, speaking for myself, a full-blown generalist, ideas which are generated by Egyptologists sometimes have relevance to us on this side of the pond. |
| Kris Hirst | Plus, I just like learning cool stuff |
| IreneH1 | Make sense, Kris! |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | One of the first discussions on Histarch was comparing privies in Australia and the US |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | If we (as archaeologists) don't discuss things, the "wheel" keeps getting re-invented |
| Pat Garrow | Historical archaeology of areas settled by the British has much in common wherever it is pursued in the world |
| Kris Hirst | I think it just is difficult to stay abreast of what things are going on in your own field, let alone anybody else's. That's what I like about the discussion lists |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | Underwater archaeologists don't talk very much with terrestrial ones, so artifacts keeping getting new names. |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | Sub-Arch allows us to talk to people we usually wouldn't even see at meetings |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | In fact, at the last SHA meetings, a whole table of underwater people sat near me, and I knew everyone of them. |
| Pat Garrow | that is certainly true Anita |
| IreneH1 | You got me convinced, LOL |
| Pat Garrow | Getting back to the underwater archaeologist vs. treasure hunters for a minute. How do you think they can cooperate |
| PhilipD | Most treasure hunters I know don't want the archaeologists around... |
| Pat Garrow | Been my experience too Philip |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | It is a matter of education. If the salvors and/or treasure hunters can be taught that doing it right saves time and money, and that the video and movie rights are what will pay them back... |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | Treasure hunters and salvors seem to be of several different minds. |
| PhilipD | Recent underwater stuff here were the Hunley and Blackbeard's flagship.. |
| Pat Garrow | Doing it right is more expensive and requires more time in actuality. video, movie, and display rights have to be more lucrative than treasure hunting though |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | Many salvors will work with archaeologists if they have been educated as to why they should. |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | The Hunley was done correctly and the ship itself saved. |
| PhilipD | Anita, how do the salvors and archaeologists decide what belongs to which one? |
| Pat Garrow | true Anita, but there have been several real failures in the last few years too. like the Whydah and everything Mel Fisher did |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | If you read Peter Throckmorton's article (in Historical Archaeology) you can see that treasure hunting rarely if ever pays for itself. |
| PhilipD | Yeah Mel Fisher paid with a couple family members didn't he? |
| Pat Garrow | that is certainly true Anita. most treasure hunters make their living looking for instead of finding treasure by selling annual shares |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | The Whydah was a failure due to the state's mishandling of the entire project. |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | Exactly. It is a scam, a true investment scam. |
| Pat Garrow | that was part of it Anita, plus all of the deposits were basically jumbled and tossed about. |
| IreneH1 | Was that off Florida? |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | Mel Fisher's "work" was in the Florida Keys. He tended to blast things apart and then rip them out of context. |
| Pat Garrow | Massachusetts |
| Pat Garrow | Whydah I believe was Massachusetts |
| PhilipD | The recent fundamentalist destruction in Afghanistan sickened me... |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | There is a petition wandering around the web to try and stop the destruction. |
| Pat Garrow | nothing new there Philip |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | I'd rather it was statues rather than people. |
| PhilipD | Think a petition will help? Or is it too late? |
| Pat Garrow | The large statues have been destroyed |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | Their government won't listen to a petition from the West. Now, if we bribe them... |
| IreneH1 | Too late, they announced today that they had destroyed the statues |
| IreneH1 | What about the museum? I understand the Met offered to by the stuff off the Taliban. |
| PhilipD | It's a shame how much historical information has been lost at the hands of fanatics.. |
| IreneH1 | It's an age old problem, Philip, it's just that we are shocked because it happens in our time |
| Pat Garrow | Fanatics of all stripes |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | Consider: most of the ancient forts in the Middle East have been destroyed by the PLO and others storing their ammo in them. |
| PhilipD | Right |
| Kris Hirst | Most of the Woodland period mounds were destroyed in the American Midwest for much the same reason |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | The Turks destroyed part of the Parthenon in Athens |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | And the historic adobes were knocked down in downtown Tucson, AZ by Anglos who considered them "mud houses". |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | And there, history repeated itself when the Tucson Convention Center was built in the 1960s |
| Pat Garrow | and who pay hundreds of thousands to build homes that look like those mud houses today Anita |
| LauraR | farmers in southern Illinois who plow up prehistoric burial grounds |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | Again, I say, again, it is a lack of education! |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | Ooooh, I've been reading too many British novels lately. :-) |
| IreneH1 | And don't forget all the looting - the Romans looted Greece wholesale |
| lepi | Flying over farmers fields in Belize you can see where Mayan settlements were plowed |
| Pat Garrow | Have seen that up close lepi |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | All this brings us back to the need for web sites and TV documentaries for the public that teach them about the past. |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | There is a book called THE PAST IS A FOREIGN COUNTRY (I don't remember the author offhand). |
| Pat Garrow | Good point Anita, and the need to make sure the information shared with the public is accurate |
| IreneH1 | Dr. Hawass seems to do a lot of good in Egypt, yes? |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | Absolutely! Here in California we often have to deal with the nonsense about the Spanish killing all the Indians in the missions. |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | My husband, Dr. Jack Williams, is now working on a textbook series for 4th graders about the daily life of the mission inhabitants. |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | Hopefully, that will help. |
| larry | part of the problem here is people don't realize is what they have found |
| IreneH1 | I volunteer at our local historical society, and we are working with the elementary school teachers right now about local history |
| Pat Garrow | how so Larry? |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | Or, when they find something, they do not know where to take it. |
| larry | they don't recognize a site when it can be so evident |
| Kris Hirst | I've seen one book, called Elena and the Coin, which is very good, and directed to kids |
| Pat Garrow | good point. |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | I saw the ad on it, but am afraid to read it. |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | Ok, Kris, if I do start a weekly ezine on archaeology on the web, you can come and plunder all you like. |
| Kris Hirst | gee thanks, Anita <grin> |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | I have a lot of web sites on Egyptian archaeology, including the Tomb of the Chihuahua Pharoahs. |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | I mainly run several discussion lists on archaeology. |
| IreneH1 | Can my forum manager and I too, Anita? For the Ancient/Classical Forum? ;-) |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | Sure! Maybe I'll do some in-depth book reviews. |
| IreneH1 | Thanks! Nemy Gill will love it! |
| Kris Hirst | I love that site, the Chihuahua pyramids I mean |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | Do you have the newest address for it? |
| lepi | what is URL for pyramid site? |
| Kris Hirst | http://www.neferchichi.com/ |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | A lot of nice clip art there. |
| Kris Hirst | it's silly. I like that in a website |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | And user friendly as well. |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | Speaking of which, you all should take a look at the Death By Theory book I mentioned earlier. It is mostly fiction, but has several interesting hits in it. It also explains current archaeology theories. |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | What do you all think of the idea of a archaeological clearinghouse? |
| IreneH1 | Death by Theory : A Tale of Mystery and Archaeological Theory , Paperback - 160 pages (November 2000) ISBN: 0742503593 (160 pages only?) |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | It is published by AltaMira Press. I suggest going directly to their web site as Amazon says it will takes 3-4 weeks to get. |
| Pat Garrow | clearinghouse in what sense Anita? |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | A clearinghouse that has copies of the CRM reports, archaeological society addresses, websites that deal with the subjects, etc. |
| Pat Garrow | sounds good to me |
| Kris Hirst | Great idea! |
| Pat Garrow | I see the time has come to let Anita off the hot seat |
| IreneH1 | Thank you very much, Anita! |
| lepi | thanks Anita |
| Anita Cohen-Williams | You are very welcome. Now I can let my keyboard cool off. |
| Kris Hirst | Thanks very much, Anita; you've proved your courage tenfold <grin> |
| Pat Garrow | Our guest next week will be J. Barto Arnold of the Institute for Nautical Archaeology at Texas A&M |
| Pat Garrow | thank you Anita!!! |
| larry | thanks Anita |
| Pat Garrow | Barto will talk about underwater archaeology |
| Pat Garrow | Good Night folks |
| Kris Hirst | should be interesting; maybe we can continue our salvor discussion. thanks again to everyone for coming. |
| .............. Log stopped at Sun Mar 11 20:04:34 PST 2001 ........... |